MONTGOMERY — State Rep. Chris England (D-Tuscaloosa) had a tense exchange with a Birmingham pastor during a public hearing over a bill that would codify definitions of man, woman, boy, girl, father, mother, male, female, and sex in Alabama law and allow local public entities to establish separate single-sex spaces or environments in certain circumstances.
House Bill 111 (HB11), sponsored by State Rep. Susan DuBose (R-Hoover), would codify concise biological definitions within state law, allowing for distinct male and female spaces without being subject to state restrictions.
Dubose presented the bill before the House judiciary committee, which had a public hearing for members of the public to make their voices heard.
“This is a definitional bill for our courts to have guidance when interpreting laws that already exist in Alabama," she said. "Words have meaning, and my intent is to make sure we have uniform and our courts have clarity. While this bill will allow for same-sex spaces, it does not require or create them. This bill only defines sex. It does not limit or define gender identity, or prevent anyone from identifying however they wish.”
One speaker, Paula Scanlan, was on the much-publicized University of Pennsylvania swim team, where a biological male, Lia Thomas, was allowed to compete and use the women’s facilities. Other speakers were representatives from Moms for Liberty, residents and a Birmingham-based pastor, Bishop Jim Lowe.
“Most people throughout history believed human beings were divinely designed by God when He created them as male and female,” Lowe said. “He created them equal, but He made them differently. And since then, they’ve been born into the world as either male or female for thousands of years, except up until now, we seem to have lost an ability to see the difference. Even those who didn’t believe in god, who had eyes to see, they knew there was visibly a difference between a man and a woman, and those differences needed to be respected. Failing to recognize those differences could mean the abuse of an individual. And that has always been understood since then beginning, and that is again up until this generation.”
Others spoke against the bill, such as representatives from the Human Rights Campaign, social workers and transgender activists.
After the public hearing, England called Bishop Lowe back to the podium to ask him questions.
After asking Lowe for a definition of intersex, England asked Lowe if someone born with “both sexual organs” would have a place in his church.
England: “It sounds like to me that your world is binary.”
Lowe: “My world is based upon what the Word of God says. And if God’s word says something, I’m going to stand by that. When I run into distinctions or something that’s different, then I have to allow the judgment of how I sense the Holy Spirit’s telling me to move on it. I will never exclude any person from my church.”
England: “But you will before they enter your church tell them that they really don’t have a place there. And the reason I say that…”
Lowe: “I would never do that, sir.”
England: “But your language, how you present, what you talk about, those things are discriminatory.”
Lowe: “No.”
After England went into a lengthy diatribe on acceptance and suggested that when people “start off from the position of exclusion, what we end up [with] is a very large population of individuals that commit suicide,” Lowe reiterated the entire purpose of the bill.
“All we are seeking to do is to define what is a man and what is a man and what is a woman,” Lowe said. “Make it legal because right now, we already see people don’t know the difference.”
The exchange went on for some time, with a less-than-in-depth debate over divine design, ecclesiastic acceptance, and the nature of intersex people. Eventually, England said, “I can see where this is going,” and ended the cross-examination.
HB 111 did not receive a committee vote on Wednesday but likely will when the Judiciary meets again.
To connect with the author of this story or to comment, email craig.monger@1819news.com.
Don't miss out! Subscribe to our newsletter and get our top stories every weekday morning.
